Curse

drkn · Sep 23, 2009, 12:16 PM // 12:16

pve/pvp split ftw, the only sane way of balance imho. it's not even about the money, just about having useable, playable skills out there.
farming is a part of the game, sure, just not excessive farming with sf in elite areas. and i don't really know why you guys so hate farmers here - what's the difference between a guy with 50k and 1kk? he won't buy a stronger weapon, he won't get more armor, rare minis/el tonics won't give him any real advantage. it's not wow or l2, you can farm here for fun, not getting any advantage.

madriel222 · Sep 23, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Forget farming, I'm just happy I can help guildies with Arborstone without getting interrupted every few seconds from the walls collapsing ^_^

BrettM · Sep 23, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

I'm amazed that there are people who can't see a difference between a skill that is mostly used by some of the players in one location a few times a year for a handful of extra event drops and a skill that is used daily by nearly every player in sight to speed clear a number of elite areas. I'm amazed that there are people who can't see a difference between a skill that still doesn't make the professions using it the equal of other professions doing the same farm and a skill that has virtually eliminated all other professions from elite areas.

Concluding that un-nerfing MoR means ANet will never nerf SC means you believe ANet is just as blind to the difference as you are, which does not seem to fit with ANet's own statements that they are not against farming but are uncomfortable with SC in elite areas.

Personally, I have nothing against SF or people who get their kicks from SC. They aren't hurting me in any way I can detect. But, I can see the difference between SF vs MoR and why one might be a vastly bigger issue than the other to the team maintaining the game. Take off the blinders imposed by your anti-farming bigotry and self-declared moral superiority and perhaps you will be able to see the difference too.

AngelWJedi · Sep 23, 2009, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Because it is...

Because it isnt. i used it in pvp and on hero monks. but i guess you cant see that with your rose color glasses. and your farming hater hat on.

upier · Sep 23, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelWJedi

Because it isnt. i used it in pvp and on hero monks. but i guess you cant see that with your rose color glasses. and your farming hater hat on.

It was trashed because of PvP.
But the skill was also used in PvE farming, so A.net had the chance of killing two bids with one stone, had they wanted a game where farming isn't end-game PvE content.
Obviously, they do not.
And as such, I do not see any reason to trash other popular farming tools.
I mean, if farming is the name of the game, then it's insane to ask that our best tools for this task are taken away from us.

QueenofDeath · Sep 23, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

you can make this game as hard as you like by not using all tools given to yourself! I've done it multiple times, not using my eight skill slots, not using all available partymembers,

Not taking a full party is not saying much when you can complete 90% of the game with just 3 heroes and yourself. lol

Vazze · Sep 23, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Keep SF, keep 600s or nerf both

Within a 30s time frame the permasin has to push two (!) buttons to stay alive, the 600 ... perhaps a dozen or two? 600ing is a lot of work and it has lots of weaknesses with or without mantra, SF is just a godmode button.

QueenofDeath · Sep 23, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Nerf em all and let god sort them out.

)

BlackSephir · Sep 23, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

Within a 30s time frame the permasin has to push two (!) buttons to stay alive, the 600 ... perhaps a dozen or two? 600ing is a lot of work and it has lots of weaknesses with or without mantra, SF is just a godmode button.

No, SF has weaknesses too. Really.
But that's not the point- 600 if done "well" in specific areas makes you immortal. SF if used "well" in specific areas makes you immortal. Both should be dead.

Quote:

600ing is a lot of work

So if AN nerfed 600 to hell they'd make sure there's less WORK in their game?
Sounds good to me.

Desert Rose · Sep 23, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

Within a 30s time frame the permasin has to push two (!) buttons to stay alive, the 600 ... perhaps a dozen or two?

On average about 8. PS once every 20 seconds, SoA and Spirit Bond once every 10 seconds, MoR once every 60 seconds.
How many buttons a 600HP has to push to kill his opponents?

Ccat · Sep 23, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

No, SF has weaknesses too. Really.
But that's not the point- 600 if done "well" in specific areas makes you immortal. SF if used "well" in specific areas makes you immortal. Both should be dead.

The latter should be dead first on account of it uses to skills to be invincible from almost all types of damage. The other 6 are at your disposal. To reach the amount of survivability SF has, 600 could easily use a whole bar just for survival whilst being much slower than SF that has to stop every 20-something seconds to recast a 0.33 second spell.

BlackSephir · Sep 23, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ccat

The latter should be dead first on account of it uses to skills to be invincible from almost all types of damage. The other 6 are at your disposal. To reach the amount of survivability SF has, 600 could easily use a whole bar just for survival whilst being much slower than SF that has to stop every 20-something seconds to recast a 0.33 second spell.

What's so hard to understand about that there shouldn't be godmode in the game and it doesn't matter if that god mode is because you have 1 skill or 8?

Targren · Sep 23, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loot Junkie

Obsidian Flesh has a movement reduction penalty, SF has a damage reduction penalty.

Obsidian Flesh has spell protection, SF has spell protection.

SF has attack protection, Obsidian Flesh has.....One fewer skill slot needed to maintain sans cons.

Fixed that for ya

Ccat · Sep 23, 2009, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

What's so hard to understand about that there shouldn't be godmode in the game and it doesn't matter if that god mode is because you have 1 skill or 8?

Because if you have a full bar devoted to survivability and one skill for damage, it makes things hella slower - this is the issue. The issue is not that UW can be cleared in HM - that would be absurd, petty. The problem is that it can be run in 15 minutes or less, and that's truly what decides what is OP and what isn't. Hell, you could say UA mimicry + SY! is OP merely because it works/survives, or anything else that can clear high end areas is godmode, but it doesn't make it so; say I've completed FoW HM once before with two humans and 6 heroes, and it took 2 hours. The fact that I completed it doesn't make it broken or whatever, that would be like saying the area isn't supposed to be doable.

The fact that Perma requires two skills to remain invincible and has the other 6 to do fathoms of damage, is what's overpowered really because honestly, in terms or tanking power 55/terra tanks do the job just as good (in fact 600 can do a better job vs touchers). The real issue is that a single SFer can both damage and survive any area, areas that parties of 8 couldn't do.

Vazze · Sep 23, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

On average about 8. PS once every 20 seconds, SoA and Spirit Bond once every 10 seconds, MoR once every 60 seconds.
How many buttons a 600HP has to push to kill his opponents?

That's a minimum, not an average. If you happen to have visage, spell breaker, are worried about kds and have to recast ps more often or have to spam SB then add +6 to your 8; finally, add whatever your hero(es) need to cast (spirits/enchants/flags/etc): +0-5 and we are looking at a 5-10x difference between permasin and 600 activity.

The problem with permasins killing is not that it requires no "work", it does, but since most farms/runs are 90% running (2skills/30s) and 10% killing, it does not really matter.

Loot Junkie · Sep 24, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Fixed that for ya

Not really Targren, because along with that glyph of swiftness/Obs Flesh combo you will usually have to add AT LEAST stoneflesh aura to survive, and sometimes another armor enchantment as well depending on the area. Stoneflesh takes 2 seconds alone to cast, the entire SF combo takes just under 2 seconds, due to the skill activation boost from DP. The entire Obs Flesh combo takes over 4 seconds to activate. This is a huge deal when renewing your enchantments in a survival situation.

Premium Unleaded · Sep 24, 2009, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Just give all mobs in hard mode a monster version of YMLaD.

Magragoc · Sep 24, 2009, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

Just give all mobs in hard mode a monster version of YMLaD.

That would be hilariously horrible, and make HM unplayable.

fenix · Sep 24, 2009, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magragoc

That would be hilariously horrible, and make HM unplayable.

If you're a bad player who relies on gimmicks, sure, it might make HM unplayable.

If you know how to play Guild Wars, then you'd be laughing at everyone while you win everything without thinking.

Magragoc · Sep 24, 2009, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

If you're a bad player who relies on gimmicks, sure, it might make HM unplayable.

If you know how to play Guild Wars, then you'd be laughing at everyone while you win everything without thinking.

You really think you'll be laughing when every enemy in a mob has an armor-ignoring, highly damaging snare on a ten second recharge? Good luck to your monks on getting anything off that isn't a 1/4 second cast.